We each come from a unique position as filmmakers ourselves, which offers a shorthand, not to mention inspiration when interviewing screenwriters and filmmakers. They’re appreciative when we find nuances in their work that perhaps no one has commented on before and for us, it often gives us further insight into our own projects.

Susan: One of the most common questions that I get from my students and Su-City clients is the importance of going to film school. There is no one-size-fits-all answer; it depends on the types of films you want to make and your career goals.

After undergraduate school, I was a fellow at the Whitney Independent Study Program, which was a perfect match for my practice as an experimental filmmaker. Now decades later, many of us remain close. Having that community is invaluable.

You attended the American Film Institute in the screenwriting program. How was that experience?

Sadie: It’s a super intense program. You’re writing, producing, and just putting out work constantly. What’s so good about that program is that you are in this really great group of people who are fostering what you’re trying to do as a creative. You have all the support systems to make your projects, and if you fall down in terms of writing, they lift you back up in some way.

It’s all traditional narrative filmmaking and linear storytelling.

A lot of us came straight out of undergrad school and in our early 20s, and taking out an incredibly large loan, not realizing how that’s going to affect your future. You hope that you’re going to sell a big script and make it big, but that’s not the reality. Coming out of film school and not having that support system anymore is hard. You can’t just necessarily say, OK, I’m going to make this film, and I have these people and the money to do it, because the school’s basically giving it to you or giving it to you from your own tuition.

I think there is a benefit in going to a film school like that, because you’re going there not only to make movies and work on your voice as a storyteller, but you’re networking. The first day there I remember being told: ‘look to your left, look to your right, look in front of you, look behind you, you’re paying for your network, you don’t know if the person is going to be your agent, or your producer, or your director.’

You’re building that film tribe. You never know who they’re going to know and put you in touch with. But then after the program is over, there’s that feeling of where I find my people again. Some are smart and go in different directions.

Susan: Define smart.

Sadie: They’re not ‘just’ screenwriters. I feel like if you’re going into this business, and you want a career after film school, become an editor or cinematographer because there’s a lot more work there and not as much for a first-time screenwriter out the gate. Unfortunately, I wish there was.

There is just more accessibility, I think especially for editors. I know a lot of editors who say, ‘Yes, I’m on a reality show, but I’m paying my bills.’ They’re networking with other people who will bring them on to different shows or to a feature. You’re still working in the industry. Whereas for screenwriters, it’s a little tough particularly to be in the industry unless you’re an assistant or something and a lot of us don’t want to do that.

Susan: We’ve been talking about the benefits of producing. I associate produced two independent features. Honing that skill, knowing how to navigate getting a film made from script to screen, raising money, working with entertainment attorneys, agents, talent and crews, was invaluable.

Trajectories and Detours

Sadie: You came through a non-traditional way of filmmaking to find your way into the studio system.

Susan: It was a confluence of things. I volunteered at the Independent Feature Film Market, working as a buyer liaison, putting filmmakers together with executives. This got my foot in the door. Soon I was hired as an acquisitions and talent consultant for Republic Pictures and Warner Bros., which led to working in various capacities at Paramount Pictures, Viacom, Punch Productions, and Miramax. With that experience combined with making my experimental short films, I worked with director Louis Malle on And the Pursuit of Happiness, which was a great experience. 

Meanwhile, I had started my screenplay and postproduction consulting company Su-City Pictures East, was a writer-for-hire on a dozen features, and later began my teaching career. I’ve always been juggling and cobbling out different jobs so I could continue making my own projects.

Sadie: I’ve had a similar experience. I had a writing partner right out of grad school; we met at AFI. We did writing-for-hire projects and specs. We were planning to work as ghost writers or do punch-ups for other writers, but you know, life happens. I fell back on producing because that’s how I started in the business working on music videos and other projects. I’ve also written things for other people, done script consulting; all of this helps finetune your craft.

Susan: What was your experience with writing spec scripts?

Sadie: It was a whirlwind coming out of an AFI, getting approached by agents, managers, and production companies. I was a young 20-something kid who didn’t know what she was doing. Either I was overthinking these opportunities, or I would be scared of turning something in that I didn’t think was perfect. In hindsight, it was never going to be perfect. Just turn it in, they want to read it.

Susan: It’s hard not to get one’s own way. There’s also that important aspect of following one’s own gut. Do you have an agent now?

Sadie: Not at the moment. I had a talent manager who hip-pocketed me. He had brought me on for a project and I wrote a short film based on an idea he had, and I worked with him on developing projects as a vehicle for talent. I was at AFI at the time, and I had so much schoolwork that I chose AFI over going down that path. It was a great learning experience because I was writing stuff that was going to actors to read and getting feedback.

After AFI, I was a producer of an independent feature documentary, I put all my creative focus and energy into that for about six years and put everything else on the back burner.

Susan: How did you get involved with Script magazine?

Sadie: I was in a writers’ group, and a friend there told me about a sales associate job at The Writers Store when it was a brick and mortar. Years later, Jeanne, who had been running Script for almost a decade, reached out to me and said she was looking to move on to Pipeline Artists. I never saw myself writing articles, running an online magazine, and running the show in this way.

You wrote for the magazine when it was an actual physical publication?

Susan: Yes. And, for the Writers Guild publication Written By.

Sadie: How did that come about?

Susan: I had spoken on a couple of panels for the Writers Guild, and they asked me to write some articles for them, which led to other freelance writing gigs. I then wrote two screenwriting books. Like you, I never saw myself writing for publications, but personal circumstances prompted me to discover unexpected opportunities.

Film Festivals Pros and Cons and Choosing What’s Right for You

Sadie: What are some key things to really focus on when entering?

Susan: Obviously it’s more advantageous to have your work seen in person at a festival, but online festivals can also widen the viewership and draw attention to you as a filmmaker and continue that networking and word of mouth going.

If it’s a newer festival, I question if it’s worth the submission fee. I also look at who the judges are. Having been a judge at festivals over the years, generally, the first-round judges are students or interns and not necessarily the filmmakers and executives you hope will see your work.

I use FilmFreeway, as well as other lists that focus on experimental films. What about you?

Sadie: I used FilmFreeway for this last short. It’s great because it does give you many filters or criteria. But it’s also dangerous because they’ll spam your inbox, and it can get expensive quickly.

My criteria is not the prize money. I also look at who’s judging and if there are any judges, is the festival going to be in person, and how long has the festival been running? Do I know other filmmakers who have been to the festival? Is it worth going to? 

Everyone wants to get into Sundance or South by Southwest, but it’s such a different ballpark. Generally, you need some money behind the film, and/or an A-list actor or someone with a name to really get you that visibility. There are a lot of great filmmakers out there who don’t have that access and I think they should all be included.

Susan: I agree. Why do you think things have changed?

Sadie: Some films are categorized as independent but then you look at the list of producers and there are big names or they’re affiliated with Netflix, for example,

I made my film We’re Good during the pandemic with an incredible cast and crew. It’s about a chronically content couple that realizes they have never had an actual argument and feel their relationship is lacking. A shocking turn in their evening leads to them exposing their secret feelings.

I learned that my movie was too long at 14 minutes. It should have been 10 minutes or less because I want the actual opportunity to screen at a festival – they’re looking at programming running time. Programmers may say, ‘We liked it, but we just didn’t have room because we can put four other movies in the slot. And that’s just better for us. You know, but good luck with your movie.’

We got into the Austin Revolution Film Festival. One of my producers had screened there before and said you’re going to love it. It’s just a great atmosphere. Super independent. I thought, ‘Oh my God, these are my people.’ There are people from all walks of life, people who are working in the industry or not, and they’re making great art as filmmakers.

The festival director said it’s not about winning the prize, it’s the people you’re going to meet here and hopefully, walk away with. The biggest prize I got was meeting at least 10 new filmmakers that I’m now in touch with. I’m already helping produce a short film. I’m rebuilding that filmmaking tribe. And with these people, we can hold each other accountable.

Go to the festivals where you can find that community, who are like-minded and not there because they want to take a photo on the red carpet and with the hopes that they’ll win first place.

Susan: For us, it is a labor of love and our passion. For my recent feature-length documentary essay Inaugural, which received a SUNY Purchase Faculty Support Award, it’s challenging to find venues because it is a niche project; I was well aware of that when making it, but it didn’t stop me. It means hustling meetings and as in the studio system, it’s a revolving door of executives and curators.

Sadie: For a lot of people, they think finding success happens overnight. It’s ten years, if you’re lucky enough to get anything up and out and finding those eyeballs to see your work. There are so many opportunities, but there’s also the question of who do you go to and who do you trust? You don’t want to put all your eggs in the basket of one person who might be gone tomorrow.

The Day Job

Sadie: I find myself very fortunate that I get to work at Script and talk to filmmakers and still have my foot in the door, and being educated about what’s happening in the industry daily, and what films or TV shows are coming out and who’s who, and then the networking part of it. Talking about creative pursuits with other people and what they’re doing and their process, is all really inspiring.

Susan: For me, I’ve been fortunate that my steady job continues to be teaching screenwriting and film at universities. It’s also kept me in the film community, and it’s been wonderful to see many students find creative and personal success over the years.

Your editor-in-chief job encompasses a great deal!

Sadie: I have my editorial calendar, organizing what the contributors are doing, when it’s going to be turned in, and budgeting. I put the pieces in, edit them as needed. I get them into the system and schedule them. And then there’s the admin work behind the scenes. There’s also a lot of marketing that I do in terms of building our newsletters, talking to other organizations and fostering partnerships with them, and then also running The Writers Store. There’s a lot happening that feeds into what Script is doing.

I’m also conducting interviews, watching screeners, or prepping for an interview. And I’m dealing with publicists and scheduling interviews with their clients.

Susan: It’s a lot. There’s also the other element too, which is not only screening the films, but doing pre-interview background research about the filmmakers and their projects.

Who inspired you with the interviews that you’ve done for the magazine?

Sadie: One that definitely jumps out is Jonah Feingold who made Dating and New York. I interviewed him during the pandemic. I told him I wanted to get back into making films and he said in a nutshell, ‘Set a date, then start telling people when you’re going to make your movie, and then it becomes reality. Then these people are asking you next time they see you how your film is going. And then people with whom you might want to work you reach out to. They’re now holding you accountable for following through.’ I thought OK, I’m going to try that out. So, I set a date and started telling people I’m making this movie. And then I realized, I guess I have to do this thing. I took that to heart and ran with it.

I talk about the writing process with many filmmakers and try to apply it to my writing and see if that sticks. Monique Matthews had some great advice about approaching her writing routine. Which is she’ll stop writing a scene halfway through and save it for the next day – it’s a motivation to keep going the next day. It was a no-brainer. Why haven’t I thought of that? I’ve been doing that every morning, I have my next scene ready to go. I take these nuggets from other filmmakers that have helped a lot.

Who’s inspired you that you’ve interviewed?

Susan: Agnes Varda. I first interviewed her at the Locarno Film Festival, and then at her incredible exhibit of installation work at the Blum and Poe Gallery in New York. She offered me words of wisdom and a personal push I needed to return to making experimental films. Interviewing her daughter producer Rosalie Varda, as well as The Brink filmmakers Alison Klayman and Marie Therese Guirgis, and Occupied City filmmakers Steve McQueen and Brigit Stigter, among many others have been poignant and unforgettable conversations.

Sadie: For both of us we have that background of being through this pipeline and pulled in and pushed out in so many ways and learning from it, and we can speak to that. We have that shorthand with other filmmakers who are like, I see you, I get what you’re trying to do with your work, and let’s talk about it.

Upcoming screenings

Susan’s film Barbie Dream House is included in the Avant-barb(ie) group show at the San Francisco Cinematheque on May 16th.

Sadie’s short film We’re Good will have its Los Angeles Premiere at the Beverly Hills Film Festival on May 2nd.